Darlo Debs
10:47 Sat Mar 7
Re: school appeals...
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Cheers.
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penners28
10:46 Sat Mar 7
Re: school appeals...
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Yeah. We just said we'd be stuffed as the mother in law would have her most days after school , doesnt drive, so would have to walk about 8 miles a day ferrying her to school and back. Plus we confirmed our house was for sale and we were looking to move into the area.
Just find out all the facts before you go in. Where i am you all go in as a group, then you go in individually. The pupils to teacher ratio is a good one as well as some schools dont like to have to hit their maximum.
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Darlo Debs
10:16 Sat Mar 7
Re: school appeals...
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Well I am going to try and work over the holidays, if I can get something to fit around the kids, or any extras will go into childcare, making it a bit pointless.
Was it you who mentioned the childcare angle for appeals? If so I thank you as I think it presents our best chance
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penners28
10:10 Sat Mar 7
Re: school appeals...
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We didnt have the money really. My mrs just took on more hours, raised some money on ebay etc. then i started taking on extra work at my place and got a promotion out of it.
Anything is doable when you put your mind to it
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Darlo Debs
9:50 Sat Mar 7
Re: school appeals...
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If I thought it possible I'd be doing it please believe we just don't have the finances...
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penners28
9:22 Sat Mar 7
Re: school appeals...
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If you plan ahead then its easily doable. I remember speaking to you about it at the time norf.
There are loads of options. Renting rooms in the catchment for example. As soon as you have that place, the siblings follow.
We had to buy a bigger house to move closer after we got in to ensure she'd get in the secondary feeder school. Just need to make sacrifices.
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Norflundon
8:51 Sat Mar 7
Re: school appeals...
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I'm sorry I don't agree it needn't cost you anything Almost any property will rent these days and even if you have to rent a pokey little flat so it doesn't cost you anything and we looked at a few just decided we had the money sowed rather have a house it just so happens there's only big houses near the school and the catchment was .3 of a mile in my eyes it's worth it we've got our daughter into one of the top schools in our area and with the sibling rule our son will go there to
Like I said it was a lot of grief but I'm glad we did it
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Darlo Debs
8:36 Sat Mar 7
Re: school appeals...
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Norf that simply isnt an option, I am a full time srudent, hubby is a van driver and the house needs a bit of work. Renting this out is simply not viable. 15k would give us a deposit on something on our carchment area...if we had that i'd just move.
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Norflundon
8:23 Sat Mar 7
Re: school appeals...
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We rented for a year to get our daughter into a school
IF you own your own house anybody can afford to do it as you just rent yours out and get something similar or smaller we could of took a flat for 12months and made about 8k but we decided to rent a really nice house cost us about 15k in all but we could afford it and it was the cheapest option over buying or private school
It's a massive upheaval to move twice in 12months but I'm glad we did it
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penners28
4:43 Sat Mar 7
Re: school appeals...
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Joke whole. I didnt understand any of your reply tbh, but my statement is 100% accurate. Plan ahead, move into catchment...job done.
If you cant afford to, train into a new job to earn more money?
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Hermit Road
3:49 Sat Mar 7
Re: school appeals...
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"If you continue to think that switching to a voucher system would make no difference to the number and type of schools on offer then so be it, but with respect you haven't understood anything about how markets work."
If I didn't think it would make a difference, I wouldn't be asking you to explain how you think it would. Of course it would make a difference.
Would you agree that only the better, more successful schools would be able to charge a fee higher than the value of the voucher? the better the school, the higher the premium.
Wouldn't it be likely to follow that the quality of a child's education will become more, not less dependant on their wealth of their parents as you suggest? I don't think that there will be the amount of extra money available for bursaries that you seem to think.
Alumni take years to accumulate, and whilst no doubt a company saw great potential in such a phenomenal specimen as yourself and was willing to foot half the bill for your MBA, the notion that this will happen for hundreds of thousands of 11 year olds is fanciful.
Another thing is, what happens when schools are over-subscribed? How do they decide who to let in? You persistently avoid that one.
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Infidel
2:44 Sat Mar 7
Re: school appeals...
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Hermit
Most private secondary schools charge about £5,000 per term, so £15,000 per year.
£20,000 per year and over is at the top end.
Primary schools by the way are a lot less.
Even so your point is valid - the voucher is unlikely on its own to buy an education at the current market prices for private schools.
There are two important points about this.
First,parents can top up the voucher with their own money. That won't make any difference for cash-strapped parents but it will bring a huge number of middle income families into the potential market for private schooling - even at today's private school rates.
And the second point is that today's market for private education isn't even an ugly cousin of what would happen if the state were removed from the provision of schooling. A vast number of new options would open up,run by all sorts of ownership models.
Many of these schools will be only partially funded by the vouchers - they will secure other forms of income (private donations, alumni bequests, fund raising activities...)to keep fees down.
I attended a business school in the 1980s that charged me about 50% of the actual cost of the MBA I enrolled for.The rest came from other sources. It happens all over the educational world and is not remotely unusual.
If you continue to think that switching to a voucher system would make no difference to the number and type of schools on offer then so be it, but with respect you haven't understood anything about how markets work.
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Hermit Road
2:05 Sat Mar 7
Re: school appeals...
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1. About the cheapest private school at the moment is circa 20k pa. So that rules all of those out. With start up costs (land not being cheap), I suggest it would be an insurmountable challenge to set up new institutions at the same cost to the tax-payer.
2. Land is finite. When those successful schools are full up, I mean really, really full up. How do you think they will deal with being over-subscribed? As a man of the market, surely you know that in all of the for-profit institutions, they will increase their charges.
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Infidel
1:58 Sat Mar 7
Re: school appeals...
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Hermit
1. Current education budget for schools is just over £40bn and there are 7 million kids in school, so the voucher might be about £6,000 per pupil per year if all current funding were handed over to parents.
You can't compare that to current private school fees because under the current system there are almost no private schools catering for lower income parents - these would spring up in the wake of a voucher system being introduced.
2. They would expand,obviously.
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Joke Whole
1:49 Sat Mar 7
Re: school appeals...
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penners28 1:01 Sat Mar 7
That's akin to treating a broken leg by applying a Band Aid to the wrist.
The cause needs to be addressed, but like most things in government (local and national), curing a root cause negatively affects the personal lives of many who have built, or hope to build a career in that area.
A properly run, commercially responsible institution would rip such costs due to inefficiencies from it's very core in the simple aim of delivering quality.
Get it right first time, every time. If it's good enough for the service you get from the provider of your mobile phone service, it's good enough for the service provider of education for the nations children.
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Hermit Road
1:04 Sat Mar 7
Re: school appeals...
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Infidel. Two questions.
How much would the voucher be worth?
and
How do you think the best performing schools will deal with being over-sunscribed?
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penners28
1:01 Sat Mar 7
Re: school appeals...
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Like i said earlier, if you want your kids to go to the school of your choice...move into the catchment area
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Infidel
12:51 Sat Mar 7
Re: school appeals...
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Joke
I am a CEO and I use my MBA almost every day in my work.
I don't understand how people can survive in senior business roles without one, though the fact they they do suggests it is possible.
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Joke Whole
12:27 Sat Mar 7
Re: school appeals...
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neilalex 7:57 Fri Mar 6
I did an apprenticeship with what stared out as the GPO and is now BT (It was Post Office Telecommunications when I finished). Since then (1976) I picked up 2 (decent) degrees on my travels within the company - not because I needed them, but the promotional structure within the company demanded them as door-openers to promotion (and to boost my managers' egos).
As "Door Openers", nothing really surpassed them, but I'm fucked if I want to spend my life opening doors. I still to this day, in everyday life, use many of the skills & attributes I learned on my apprenticeship. I struggle when asked, even by myself, to identify one practical problem those degrees had any part in solving.
It's a deep seated cultural belief that a degree trumps an apprenticeship, mainly because that apprenticeship generally suggests a lowly tradesman with one - and only one - skill set, and not some powerful desk-bound multi-talented, multi-tasking manager (a MANAGER!!! All bow down!!!)
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Infidel
11:00 Sat Mar 7
Re: school appeals...
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Yes, of course.
With a voucher you could send your kid anywhere you want.
The voucher system would lead to a lot of new schools being set up outside the regular state system. Some of these would be for-profit, some not-for-profit (charitable foundations, mutuals etc).
You can see on the posts below that the principal objection to it is that 'all the good schools would run out of places'. This is what happens when people spend decades conditioned to believe that only the state can set up a school. They can't even conceive of a market in which new schools are opening all the time under the initiative of private individuals, mutuals, charities, private institutions. And because these schools are competing against each other for the voucher of every parent they are highly motivated to raise standards.
Real choice in the hands of parents and higher educational standards vs the situation described in the OP. Why is it even controversial?
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Hermit Road
8:48 Fri Mar 6
Re: school appeals...
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Infidel. This voucher system. Would it enable students to attend private schools?
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